Achieving optimal surface integrity on critical kitchen appliances, particularly the stove top, demands highly effective cleaning agents. The challenge of removing baked-on food, grease splatters, and stubborn stains from various stove top materials like glass, ceramic, and stainless steel requires specialized formulations. Selecting the best stove top cleaner involves understanding the subtle differences in abrasiveness, chemical composition, and application methods that contribute to superior results without causing surface damage.
Unveiling the best stove top cleaning solutions involves exploring advanced cleaning technologies and meticulously tested products designed for efficiency and safety. Continue reading to explore the crème de la crème of stove top scrubbers and degreasers that promise to restore your appliance’s pristine condition.
Stove Top Shine: Which Cleans Best?
1. Weiman Glass & Ceramic Cooktop, Stove Top & Oven Cleaner
Restore your kitchen’s brilliance with the Weiman Glass & Ceramic Cooktop, Stove Top & Oven Cleaner. Effortlessly tackle stubborn burnt-on food and greasy messes, revealing a showroom shine without a single scratch.
This specialized cleaning kit is your ultimate solution for a pristine cooking surface.
Formulated with micro-bead technology, this powerful yet gentle cream cleaner effectively breaks down baked-on grime and old stains on all glass, ceramic, and induction cooktops. Its residue-free, streak-free formula polishes surfaces to a like-new finish after every use.
Pros
- Scratch-Free Cleaning Power: Advanced micro-bead technology lifts and removes tough, burnt-on food and grease without damaging delicate glass and ceramic surfaces, preserving the integrity of your cooktop.
- Brilliant Streak-Free Shine: This heavy-duty degreaser and polishing cream cleans and buffs smooth-top ranges to a dazzling, residue-free finish, making your stove top look brand new.
- Versatile Compatibility: Works effectively on induction, glass, ceramic, and all smooth-top range brands, including GE, Whirlpool, and Frigidaire, making it a universal kitchen cleaning essential.
- Complete Cleaning Solution: The comprehensive 3-piece kit includes a 10 oz cooktop cleaner, three non-scratch scrubbing pads, and a safety-designed razor scraper, equipping you to tackle even the most stubborn, baked-on buildup.
- Safe for Daily Use: Its gentle, non-abrasive formula is perfectly suited for regular cleaning routines, ensuring your kitchen appliance remains in pristine condition without compromise.
Cons
- The razor scraper’s blade is stored inside for safety, which may require an extra step to access and use for particularly challenging, hardened food debris on your stove top.
For those seeking the best for cleaning stove tops, the Weiman Glass & Ceramic Cooktop Cleaner Kit offers an unparalleled cleaning experience. It’s the ideal choice for maintaining the pristine appearance of your kitchen appliance and ensuring optimal cooking performance with its specialized formula and included tools.
2. Weiman Cooktop Cleaner & Polish Heavy Duty Stove Eco Friendly
Restore the pristine shine of your smooth top range with the Weiman Cooktop Cleaner & Polish. This heavy-duty, eco-friendly formula is specifically designed to tackle tough, burned-on messes, leaving your cooktop looking like new, all while protecting its delicate glass and ceramic surfaces.
The Weiman Glass Cook Top Cleaner & Polish is more than just a cleaner; it’s a complete care solution for your smooth top stove. Its powerful gel formula effectively removes baked-on food and grease without scratching, ensuring the longevity of your appliance. Recommended by leading manufacturers, this cleaner also polishes, enhancing the gleam and protecting against future stains, making it ideal for both new and older ranges.
Recommended by leading manufacturers, this cleaner also polishes, enhancing the gleam and protecting against future stains, making it ideal for both new and older ranges.
Pros
- Effortlessly removes stubborn, burned-on food and grease without scratching delicate glass or ceramic surfaces, making it the best for cleaning stove top messes.
- Specially formulated to clean, shine, and protect smooth top ranges, restoring their original luster and preventing future buildup.
- Highly recommended by major range top manufacturers, assuring you of its superior performance and safety for your appliance.
- Features an eco-friendly composition and is safe around vegetation, offering peace of mind during use.
- The gel form ensures easy application and effective coverage across the entire cooktop surface.
Cons
- While effective on tough grime, very deeply set or carbonized stains may require multiple applications.
The Weiman Cooktop Cleaner & Polish is an indispensable tool for any owner of a glass or ceramic stovetop. Its superior cleaning power and protective qualities make it the go-to product for keeping your kitchen’s most used appliance in impeccable condition. For a gleaming, well-maintained cooktop, this product offers unparalleled results.
For a gleaming, well-maintained cooktop, this product offers unparalleled results.
3. Cerama Bryte Glass Cooktop and Stove Top Cleaner Combo Kit
Restore your cooktop’s brilliance with the Cerama Bryte Glass Cooktop and Stove Top Cleaner Combo Kit. This powerful, yet gentle, cleaning solution is expertly formulated to tackle stubborn grease, grime, and baked-on stains, ensuring your smooth flat-top range shines like new with every use.
Designed for all smooth surface cooktops including glass, ceramic, induction, radiant, and halogen, this non-abrasive cream cleaner effectively removes tough messes without scratching. The included application tools, like the POW-R Grip Pad and scraper, make tackling burnt-on food remnants straightforward, maintaining your stovetop’s aesthetic appeal and functionality.
Pros
- Effectively removes tough grease, grime, and burnt-on food from smooth kitchen ranges without scratching the surface.
- Includes essential tools like a POW-R Grip Pad and scraper, providing a complete solution for all your cooktop cleaning needs.
- Recommended by leading stove manufacturers, ensuring compatibility and performance for various brands like GE, Whirlpool, and Frigidaire flat tops.
- Phosphate, dimethicone, and silicone-free formula, offering a safer cleaning option for your kitchen essentials.
Cons
- May require significant elbow grease for extremely stubborn, deeply burnt-on food residues.
This comprehensive cleaning kit is your go-to for maintaining a spotless induction cooktop, glass stovetop, or ceramic range. Keep your kitchen appliance looking pristine and extend its lifespan with this American-made, highly effective cleaning solution and accessory set, perfect for daily upkeep or deep cleaning sessions.
4. Weiman Ceramic and Glass Cooktop Cleaner – Heavy Duty Cleaner
Rediscover the brilliance of your cooktop with Weiman Ceramic and Glass Cooktop Cleaner. This heavy-duty formula is engineered to tackle tough messes, effortlessly lifting stuck-on food and stubborn grease without leaving a scratch.
Designed specifically for ceramic and glass cooktops, including induction surfaces, this cream cleaner utilizes advanced micro-bead technology for a powerful yet gentle clean. It effectively removes splattered food, oily residue, and watermarks, leaving a streak-free finish that enhances your kitchen’s aesthetic. Trusted by major manufacturers, this cleaner is the perfect solution for maintaining impeccable kitchen appliances.
Trusted by major manufacturers, this cleaner is the perfect solution for maintaining impeccable kitchen appliances.
Pros
- Revitalizes severely burned-on food and grease with non-abrasive cooktop pads and effective micro-bead technology, preventing scratches on delicate surfaces.
- Leaves your glass, ceramic, and induction smooth top ranges brilliantly clean, protected, and shining with a simple buffing action.
- Offers a safe and easy cleaning experience, ensuring a streak-free shine while effectively removing tough stains, dirt, and oily residue.
- Compatible with all major glass and ceramic cooktop brands like GE, Whirlpool, and Frigidaire, making it a versatile choice for most kitchens.
- The bundle includes both the powerful cooktop cream cleaner and specialized scrubbing pads for a complete cleaning solution.
Cons
- While effective on tough messes, occasional scrubbing may still be required for extremely stubborn, long-set stains.
For those seeking the best for cleaning stove tops, the Weiman Ceramic and Glass Cooktop Cleaner bundle offers a comprehensive solution. Ideal for maintaining the pristine condition of smooth top ranges, it ensures effortless cleaning and a beautiful, polished finish with every use, making it an essential addition to your kitchen cleaning arsenal.
5. Weiman 2-Pack Cooktop Cleaning Spray & Microfiber Cloth – Cooktop
Revitalize your kitchen with the Weiman Cooktop Cleaning Spray and Microfiber Cloth 2-Pack, the ultimate solution for a sparkling, showroom-ready stovetop. This award-winning kit effortlessly tackles daily grime, cut through tough grease, and leaves your cooktop surfaces gleaming without any harsh scrubbing or sticky residue.
Designed specifically for glass, ceramic, and induction cooktops, this powerful yet gentle formula erases food splatters, oily buildup, and everyday messes. The included soft microfiber cloth ensures a streak-free, residue-free finish, making quick cleanup and effortless buffing a breeze.
Pros
- Effectively cuts through tough grease, baked-on food residue, and daily splatters, restoring your cooktop’s shine with minimal effort.
- Leaves surfaces completely streak-free and residue-free, eliminating the need for rinsing and water spotting for a perfectly clear finish.
- Its non-abrasive formula is safe for a variety of surfaces including glass, ceramic, induction, and even gas ranges, ensuring your cooktop remains scratch-free.
- Includes a high-quality microfiber cloth, providing the ideal tool for a perfect, lint-free buffing and shine.
Cons
- This cleaner is formulated for general cleaning and shine, and is not intended to repair existing scratches, remove rust, or restore severely damaged cooktop surfaces.
For those seeking the best for cleaning stove top surfaces, the Weiman Cooktop Cleaning Spray and Microfiber Cloth set offers unparalleled ease and effectiveness. Maintain the pristine appearance of your kitchen with this specialized cooktop cleaner, ideal for daily maintenance and tackling stubborn kitchen messes.
6. Lysol Pro Kitchen Spray Cleaner and Degreaser, Antibacterial All Purpose
Tired of stubborn grease and grime marring your kitchen surfaces? Lysol Pro Kitchen Spray Cleaner and Degreaser is your powerful ally, engineered to effortlessly cut through tough, baked-on messes and eliminate
This antibacterial all-purpose cleaner is specifically formulated to tackle challenging kitchen grease and grime without leaving harsh chemical residues. Its citrus scent offers a refreshing finish after easily cleaning countertops, tables, oven exteriors, and kitchen appliances, ensuring a safe and pleasant environment for food preparation.
Pros
- Effectively eliminates 99.9% of kitchen viruses and bacteria, including Salmonella and E.coli, promoting a healthier kitchen environment.
- Cuts through tough, baked-on grease and grime with ease, simplifying the cleaning of heavily soiled stove tops and cooking areas.
- Leaves no harsh chemical residue, making it safe to use on food contact surfaces when rinsed properly, as well as highchairs and general kitchen exteriors.
- Features a pleasant citrus scent, deodorizing the kitchen while it cleans and disinfects.
Cons
- Rinsing is required for food contact surfaces to ensure complete removal of any cleaner residue.
For those seeking an effective solution for maintaining a hygienic and pristine kitchen, Lysol Pro Kitchen Spray Cleaner stands out. Ideal for daily upkeep and tackling demanding cleaning tasks on your stove top, countertops, and kitchen appliances, it offers peace of mind with its disinfecting power.
7. Weiman 22 Fl Oz Cooktop Cleaning Spray & Microfiber Cloth
Achieve a sparkling clean kitchen with the Weiman Cooktop Cleaning Spray and Microfiber Cloth set. This powerful duo effortlessly tackles tough grease and grime, restoring the shine to your stovetop without harsh scrubbing.
This comprehensive kit includes two 22 fl oz bottles of daily cooktop cleaner, a potent degreaser designed to cut through food residue and oily films, along with a soft microfiber towel for a perfect finish. The streak-free, no-rinse formula ensures a clear, residue-free surface after every use.
Pros
- Effectively cuts through stubborn grease, splatters, and daily build-up with its powerful degreasing formula, making it an excellent choice for maintaining an immaculate stove top.
- Leaves glass and ceramic cooktops, induction ranges, and even microwave surfaces completely streak-free and clear, requiring no rinsing for ultimate convenience.
- Its non-abrasive, scratch-safe formulation ensures it is gentle on delicate finishes of glass, ceramic, and induction cooktops, making it safe for frequent use.
- The inclusion of a high-quality microfiber cloth enhances the cleaning and buffing process for a polished, like-new appearance.
Cons
- This cleaner is designed for surface cleaning and shine, and is not intended to repair existing scratches, remove rust, or restore damaged cooktop surfaces.
For those seeking the best for cleaning stove tops, this Weiman kit offers an efficient and safe solution for daily maintenance and tough cleaning tasks. It’s ideal for maintaining the pristine condition of your glass-top stove, ensuring a gleaming kitchen with minimal effort.
8. Weiman Ceramic and Glass Cooktop – 10 Ounce – Stove
Transform your kitchen with the Weiman Ceramic and Glass Cooktop Cleaner Kit, your ultimate solution for a pristine cooking surface. This duo effortlessly tackles daily messes and stubborn, burnt-on food, ensuring your stovetop always looks its best.
This comprehensive kit includes a Heavy Duty Glass Cooktop Cream and a Daily Cooktop Cleaning Spray, both specifically formulated to clean stove tops without scratching. The non-abrasive formulas, featuring hydrogen peroxide and sodium bicarbonate, effectively lift grease, grime, and tough residues for a beautiful, streak-free shine on ceramic, glass, stainless steel, and more.
Pros
- Effortlessly removes stubborn, burnt-on food and everyday grease for a consistently clean cooktop.
- Specially designed non-scratch, non-abrasive formulas protect your ceramic and glass stovetop surfaces from damage.
- Delivers a brilliant, residue-free, streak-free shine, enhancing the overall appearance of your kitchen appliances.
- Versatile use extends beyond cooktops to microwaves, stainless steel, and glazed porcelain surfaces.
- Includes both a heavy-duty cream for tough jobs and a daily spray for quick cleanups, offering complete care.
Cons
- The citrus scent, while pleasant for some, might be too strong for individuals sensitive to fragrances.
For those seeking the best for cleaning stove tops, this Weiman kit is an indispensable tool. It provides a safe, effective, and streak-free clean, making it ideal for maintaining the beauty and functionality of your glass and ceramic cooktops.
Keep your kitchen sparkling with this high-performance cleaning solution.
9. Method Heavy Duty Degreaser, Lemongrass Scent, Oven Cleaner & Stove
Tired of scrubbing stubborn, burnt-on messes from your kitchen surfaces? The Method Heavy Duty Degreaser, with its powerful lemongrass scent, is your solution for a spotless kitchen. This potent cleaner effortlessly tackles baked-on grime, making stovetop cleaning less of a chore.
This 28-ounce bottle of Method Heavy Duty Degreaser is formulated to power through tough grease, oil, and charred remnants. It’s specifically designed for effective use on stovetops, range hoods, microwaves, burner grates, and drip pans, leaving behind a crisp, clean, and aromatic lemongrass fragrance without harsh odors.
Pros
- Effectively cuts through stubborn grease and burnt-on food splatters on various kitchen surfaces, making it an excellent choice for those seeking a powerful stove top cleaner.
- Features a refreshing lemongrass fragrance, providing a pleasant, low-odor cleaning experience unlike many harsh chemical alternatives.
- Made with a bottle crafted from 100% recycled plastic (PCR), aligning with eco-conscious cleaning product preferences.
- Cruelty-free certified and tested by people, not on animals, appealing to ethical consumers looking for a humane cleaning solution.
Cons
- May require multiple applications or a bit of dwell time for extremely old and heavily baked-on stovetop messes.
For a truly exceptional clean on your kitchen’s toughest spots, especially your stove top, Method Heavy Duty Degreaser is a reliable and pleasantly scented option. If you’re looking for an effective, eco-friendly, and animal-friendly cleaner for your kitchen appliances, this degreaser delivers outstanding results.
10. Weiman 2-Pack Cooktop Cleaning Spray & Microfiber Cloth – Cooktop
Achieve a sparkling, like-new finish on your cooktop with the Weiman 2-Pack Cooktop Cleaning Spray & Microfiber Cloth. This powerful yet gentle cleaning solution is expertly formulated to tackle everyday messes, grease, and stubborn splatters, leaving your kitchen surfaces gleaming without harsh scrubbing.
This specially designed kit includes two ready-to-use spray bottles of Weiman’s renowned cooktop cleaner, boasting a degreasing formula that effectively lifts food residue and oily films. Paired with a premium microfiber towel, it ensures a streak-free, residue-free shine on various kitchen surfaces, including glass, ceramic, and induction cooktops.
Pros
- Effortlessly removes tough grease, burnt-on food, and daily grime with its advanced degreasing formula, making it a top choice for best stove top cleaner.
- Delivers a flawless, streak-free shine on glass and ceramic cooktops and other kitchen appliances thanks to its no-rinse, no-residue application.
- The non-abrasive, scratch-safe formula protects delicate surfaces like glass cooktops, induction hobs, and even air fryer baskets from damage, ensuring longevity.
- Includes a high-quality microfiber cloth for optimal buffing and a polished finish, enhancing its utility as a complete cooktop cleaning kit.
- Recognized for its efficacy with an award from Good Housekeeping, signifying its reliability as a kitchen cleaning essential for maintaining a pristine cooking area.
Cons
- This cleaner is designed for surface cleaning and shine, and will not repair existing scratches or damage on glass or ceramic surfaces.
For those seeking a reliable and effective way to maintain the shine of their kitchen appliances, the Weiman Cooktop Cleaning Spray coupled with its microfiber cloth offers a convenient and thorough solution. Ideal for daily upkeep and tackling tough kitchen messes, this duo ensures your cooking surfaces are always spotless and well-maintained.
Best for Cleaning Stove Tops: Your Smart Guide
Stove top surface material compatibility
The composition of your cooktop surface dictates the most effective and safest cleaning approaches, directly impacting both its longevity and your ability to maintain a pristine appearance.
Understanding your stove’s material—whether it’s a sleek glass-ceramic, durable enamel, or modern stainless steel—is paramount for achieving optimal cleanliness without causing damage. Each surface has unique properties that require specific care. For instance, glass-ceramic surfaces, while visually appealing, can be susceptible to scratching from aggressive scrubbing or certain types of cleaners that may leave unsightly marks or even permanent damage.
Similarly, enamel can chip or stain if harsh chemicals are used, and stainless steel, though robust, can develop micro-scratches that dull its shine from abrasive pads or gritty cleaning agents, compromising its inherent beauty and ease of upkeep.
Therefore, it’s essential to tailor your cleaning routine to your specific cooktop type. Harsh abrasive cleaners and scouring pads should be strictly avoided on delicate glass-ceramic and enamel finishes to prevent permanent marring. Mild, non-abrasive cleaners, often recommended by manufacturers, are best for daily maintenance and tackling spills.
Mild, non-abrasive cleaners, often recommended by manufacturers, are best for daily maintenance and tackling spills. For stubborn residues on stainless steel, a gentle, specialized stainless steel cleaner along with a soft cloth or sponge typically yields the best results, preserving the finish and ensuring your appliance remains effortlessly clean.
Cleaning power and effectiveness
A cleaner’s ability to cut through kitchen grime is paramount; it dictates how effortlessly you can restore your cooking surface to its original shine.
Without potent cleaning action, stubborn spatters and baked-on messes become a frustrating battle, consuming time and effort. Manufacturers design formulations specifically to combat different culinary challenges, from baked-on food particles that require abrasive yet safe agents to shiny streaks left by hard water, which necessitate acid-based components for mineral deposit removal.
The efficacy of any cleaning solution hinges on its blend of powerful degreasing agents and high-performance surfactants. These ingredients work synergistically – the degreasers break down tough, oily residue, while surfactants lift and emulsify particles, allowing them to be easily wiped away. Look for formulations that clearly state their prowess in handling heavy grease build-up and tough, polymerized stains, ensuring minimal scrubbing and optimal results for a pristine kitchen.
Ease of application and removal
Effortless cleanup is paramount for maintaining a pristine kitchen surface; a great cleaning solution should simplify, not complicate, your routine.
The practicalities of applying and removing a cleaning agent dictate the overall user experience. Whether opting for a convenient spray, a concentrated paste, or a simple wipe-on formula, the ease of application directly influences how quickly and effectively you can tackle grease and grime. Understanding how long a cleaner needs to dwell for maximum effectiveness is also key; some may require a short waiting period to break down tough residues, while others work instantly.
Crucially, the residue remaining after cleaning should wipe away smoothly without leaving behind unsightly streaks or sticky films, ensuring a polished finish with minimal effort.
A formula that rinses cleanly simplifies the final buffing stage, allowing you to achieve that satisfying shine without endless wiping. Consider cleaners that develop a good lather when agitated by a sponge, as this often indicates effective lifting of food debris. The goal is a spotless, glossy surface achieved through straightforward steps, from initial application to the final wipe-down.
The goal is a spotless, glossy surface achieved through straightforward steps, from initial application to the final wipe-down.
Safety and ingredient considerations
Prioritizing the health of your household and the pristine condition of your cooking surfaces is paramount when maintaining your kitchen.
Formulations free from harsh fumes and toxic chemicals are essential for safe fume-free cleaning, especially in enclosed kitchen environments where ventilation can be limited. This ensures you can achieve a spotless finish without creating an unhealthy atmosphere. Look for products that clearly state their non-toxic nature, offering peace of mind during and after use.
Look for products that clearly state their non-toxic nature, offering peace of mind during and after use.
Furthermore, using cleaners with food-grade ingredients is a crucial aspect of kitchen hygiene, as residues might come into contact with food preparation areas. This significantly reduces the risk of unintended contamination. Additionally, consider formulations that are gentle on the skin; frequent use of abrasive or allergenic cleaning agents can lead to dryness, irritation, or allergic reactions for those handling the product, making a skin-friendly option a more comfortable and pleasant experience for effective kitchen upkeep.
Quick Best For Cleaning Stove Top Buying Checklist
- Cleaning Power: Look for products specifically formulated to tackle burnt-on food, grease, and grime common on stovetops.
- Surface Compatibility: Ensure the cleaner is safe for your specific stovetop material (e.g., glass-ceramic, stainless steel, enamel).
- Scrubbing Tools: Consider if the product includes or recommends specific non-scratch scrubbers or pads for effective cleaning without damaging the surface.
- Odor/Fumes: Opt for low-odor or fume-free formulas, especially if you have ventilation concerns.
- Ease of Use: Check for simple application methods like spray-on, wipe-off, or paste applications requiring minimal effort.
- Residue-Free Finish: Choose cleaners that leave no streaks or sticky residue, ensuring a polished and clean look after use.
Frequently Asked Questions
What Type Of Cleaner Is Best For Removing Tough, Burnt-On Food From A Glass-Ceramic Stovetop?
For tough, burnt-on food on a glass-ceramic stovetop, a specialized **cerium oxide cleaner** or a **non-abrasive cream cleaner** specifically designed for cooktops is most effective. These cleaners work by gently loosening and lifting burnt-on residue without scratching the delicate surface. Apply the cleaner, let it sit for a few minutes to penetrate the mess, then gently scrub with a soft cloth or a non-scratch scrubbing pad, wiping clean with a damp cloth.
How Can I Effectively Clean A Stainless Steel Stovetop Without Scratching The Surface?
For a scratch-free clean, use a soft cloth or sponge with a mild dish soap and warm water to wipe up fresh spills. For tougher, burnt-on messes, try a paste of baking soda and water, let it sit for a few minutes, then gently scrub with a non-abrasive sponge or microfiber cloth. Always wipe in the direction of the stainless steel grain and rinse thoroughly with clean water.
Are There Specific Cleaning Tools Or Accessories Recommended For Porcelain Enamel Stovetops?
Yes, gentle cleaning tools are recommended for porcelain enamel stovetops to avoid scratching. Opt for non-abrasive sponges or soft cloths, along with mild dish soap or specialized porcelain cleaner. For tougher stains, consider a paste of baking soda and water, applied briefly before wiping clean.
Which Cleaning Products Are Safe To Use On Induction Stovetops To Avoid Damage Or Discoloration?
For induction stovetops, gentle cleaning is key to prevent damage. Use a soft cloth or sponge with a mild dish soap or a specialized non-abrasive cooktop cleaner. Always wipe down with a damp cloth afterwards and dry thoroughly to avoid mineral deposits and streaks.
What Is The Most Efficient Way To Deal With Grease Splatters On Various Types Of Stovetops?
For immediate cleanup, a damp cloth with a few drops of dish soap works wonders on most stovetops, cutting through fresh grease effectively. For tougher, baked-on splatters on glass or ceramic surfaces, use a non-abrasive scrub pad or a specialized cooktop cleaner, while porous materials like unsealed stone may benefit from a poultice of baking soda and water. Always test any cleaning solution on an inconspicuous area first to avoid damaging the finish.
Final Words
Investing in the right tools for your stove top cleaning makes all the difference, transforming scrubbing chores into quick refreshes. From tackling baked-on grease to restoring that beautiful shine, these solutions offer unparalleled efficiency and gleam. Embrace a cleaner, more enjoyable kitchen experience and say goodbye to stubborn messes!
Embrace a cleaner, more enjoyable kitchen experience and say goodbye to stubborn messes!
